Use wrt54g to connect another desktop

[tapit]

This has probably been covered somewhere, however after a full day of reading I couldn't come up with any solutions to my problem. I have one desktop computer connected to a Siemens Speedstream 6520 wireless adsl gateway modem. I use it to connect my desktop and some gaming consoles in my bedroom to the internet. I have another desktop in the livingroom which I would like to connect to the internet and more gaming consoles for our two boys. I bought a WRT54G v.6 thinking this would be able to connect the living room computer to the wireless capability on our siemens modem and the boys could plug their consoles into the back of the WRT54G as well. I'm not the hawkings of techie stuff, but I do understand most of it or study at the University of WWW until I get a handle on something. Here is a diagram of what I would like to do.

Internet
|
Bedroom computer----Siemens 6520----xbox,ps2
|
wireless magic
|
|
LVroom Comouter---WRT54G-----xbox,ps2


I thought this would help alleviate the problem of having to run cable from the ethernet ports on the siemens modem to the livingroom computer, and it would allow the boys to play their games outside our bedroom. Have you ever tried to kick a 14 yr old off halo 2 online. Mission Impossible.

Is their a solution to my problem? or do I have to hardwire the computer and run cable through my house?

[gv]

You cannot use the WRT54G as wireless bridge which is what you want to do. You need a access point like the Linksys WAP for that. A WAP can connect wireless to another wireless access point or router. A WRT can only be used to create a new wireless network and not to connect to an existing one.

On some versions of the WRT it is possible to install 3rd party firmware which has the bridging capability. I am not sure whether you'll find one for a v6 though. Check the wikipedia article on the wrt54g and the links you'll find there for firmware.

With the WRT54G and standard Linksys firmware you have to wire it.

[MikeB]

I think your network diagram is probably more like this:

Internet
|
Siemens 6520----xbox,ps2,Bedroom computer
|
wireless magic
|
|
WRT54G-----xbox,ps2,LVroom Computer

By default, a WRT54G is configured as a Gateway. In other words it depends on the WAN port to route traffic for your LAN (including the wireless machines).

If you configure the WRT54G as a router you may be able to get this to work. When I say may, I have not tried this myself, but it should work.

Normally a WRT54G has an IP address of 192.168.1.1 on it's LAN side. I don't know what address your Siemens uses, but it could also be 192.168.1.1. If the Siemens is using 192.168.1.1, you will have to change the WRT54G to use say 192.168.1.2. This can be done in the "Basic Setup" section of "Setup" after connecting to the WRT54G with your web browser. The addresses just have to be different and they have to be on the same IP subnet.

IMPORTANT: Do not connect anything to the WAN port on the WRT54G.

Under "Advanced Routing", you need to configure a static route that would look like this:

Network Network Mask Gateway
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1

Set the "Destination LAN IP" to 0.0.0.0
Set the "Subnet Mask" to 0.0.0.0
Set the "Default Gateway" to 192.168.1.1 (assuming the Siemens uses 192.168.1.1 as it's LAN address)

Then click the "Save Settings" button.

You can check that the static route is in place by clicking "Show Routing Table".

Your PC's that connect either via wireless or Ethernet to the WRT54G will have a route that points their Internet traffic at 192.168.1.2 (the address of the WRT54G). They will have added this route as a result of being assigned an IP address from the DHCP server on the WRT54G. The WRT54G will then use the static route you just added to route the packets to 192.168.1.1 to get out to the Internet.

The returning packets will come into the WAN port on the Siemens. The Siemens should have a route of 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.1.1 (or possibly 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 0.0.0.0) which means that the Siemens will then ARP for the destination IP address. This ARP is a broadcast and should be sent out over every interface that is connected to the 192.168.1.0 subnet. This means that the WRT54G should receive the ARP (from the Siemens) and because it contains a switch should pass on the ARP to all machines connected to it (either wireless or Ethernet).

Another thing you will have to make sure of is that if the Siemens and the WRT54G are both setup to act as DHCP servers, you will have to make sure they don't issue the same range of IP addresses; otherwise, you may end up with IP conflicts.

Alternatively, you could turn off the DHCP server in one of the 2 units.

Please let me know if it works. I will monitor this thread.

[gv]

Again: the WRT is not able to connect to another access point (as client) through a wireless connection. This will never work with standard firmware. It does not make any difference if the WRT is operated in router or gateway mode. The WRT requires a wired connection to some other router or the ISP directly.

As a sidenote: it is also a bad idea to operate two routers in most home networks. It makes things terrible complicated. And you have only very limited file and printer sharing across the internal router. It is much better not to operate the second internal router as router at all but use it only as access point connecting it through a LAN port to the rest of the network leaving the internet port open. That way wireless clients are bridged into the wired network and all you have is a single home network. This is much better and easier to manage.

[MikeB]

I am not sure you are correct about having to use a bridge to do this.

Using it as a bridge assumes you are using the WAN port. If you don't use the WAN port as laid out in my contrivance I believe it should work assuming the ARPs get propagated everywhere they need to.

The only thing that might prevent this from working is due to a limitation in the switching capabilities of the WRT54G and/or the Siemens.

[MikeB]

Yes that may be correct that the WRT cannot connect as a client. I have never tried that, but as you have pointed out 3rd party software can get around that problem.

[MikeB]

File and Printer sharing is not limited by a router as long as you know what you are doing, but it certainly is more complicated to set up. I should also add that the complexity I am referring to would not apply in this case as we are not talking about multiple subnets.

You are right that 2 routers make things more complicated, but assuming the wireless client connection can be made the only added complexity is one static route. Not that complex in my books.

Message Edited by MikeB on 12-04-200605:11 PM

[gv]

Believe me: the standard WRT54G firmware works only as access point never in bridge or repeater mode. I have seen many versions and haven't seen one. You have to buy a WAP54G or get a 3rd party firmware which may be difficult for the newer v5,v6,v7 versions as those WRT have less memory.

Also: a router separates subnets. A router separates broadcast domains. This causes problems when you want to use protocols that rely on broadcasts like the microsoft network browsers. With a router inbetween you won't be able to browse a workgroup crosses the router. You can only see whatever is in your broadcast domain but not the other.

You can get a router which allows you to specify which broadcasts you want to forward. You cannot on a WRT.

You can access file shares through the ip address directly. But this is not want people here usually have in mind when they want to do file and printer sharing in the home network.

You can run a domain controller. Yet another thing most people here don't want to do nor know how to do it.

Also people have to understand that those two routers must use different subnets. They have to configure routes. To get it working at all. Also you must rely on gateway router to NAT addresses in the other routers subnet. There are some implementations of NATs out there which only do the address translations of address inside their own LAN and not from a different subnet. And then, someone wants a port forwarding to his wireless laptop...

There are many issues which most not so network-savvy people will have a hard time with. It is definitively much easier to tell them to assign a non-conflicting IP address, turn off the DHCP server and hook it up through a LAN instead of the WAN port. Then they have a single network with a single DHCP server, a single internet gateway, a single router where they have to configure any port forwardings, a single broadcast domain in which they can do file and printer sharing as in any other little home network.

[MikeB]

Yes, I know the standard WRT will not bridge.

And yes, I know that the Microsoft software depends on broadcasts; however, you can make use of your lmhosts file to connect to printers and shares over a routed network. I realize without broadcasts the printers and shares do not show up in the network neighborhood but it still works.

Alternatively this can be done using a DNS or it can be done with a WINS server or ADS. I would agree these last methods are mostly beyond the average user and for that matter even the lmhosts file approach is difficult for the layperson, but it works across subnets. The lmhosts method could fairly easily be taught to most people.

In the case I put forward and if you were paying attention access between all of the workstations does not involve crossing subnets. It just involves a simple proxying (i.e., it does not use the WAN port on the WRT, it only uses a static route redirection on the default route to get to the Siemens and out to the Internet).

The reason I went into detail is that this person declared that he was a digger. If I get a feel that a person is not up for the challenge I wouldn't go into this much detail. You have to try and read the user.

[gv]

For most people in this forum this is simply too complex. Believe me. As long as there is not real reason why there has to be a second router in the network I don't see a reason why you wanted to go through all the hassle with lmhosts, static IP address assignments etc. Many people here don't even know they can configure their router through their web browser.

Why do you want to complicate things when you can use them have much simpler? Therefore: as long as there is no real requirement in a scenario which requires a second router in the LAN I don't recommend that kind of setup.

O.K. Now I have read your previous posts again. I assume as you suggested router mode and even added a manual route you use it as router. But you don't want to use the WAN port, still adding routes and running two DHCP servers in the same LAN! This makes things even more complicated as there is no rule from which DHCP server you'll get the ip address. That will be even more confusing.

Your suggestions are extremly complicated when there is the simple solution to simply use the WRT as access point only to bridge wireless clients into the LAN.

• You connect the WRT through a LAN port instead of the WAN port.


• You assign a non-conflicting LAN IP address (not the gateway router and not in the DHCP server range of the gateway)


• You turn off the DHCP server on the WRT


• Nothing is connected on the Internet port and the Internet connection settings can be safely ignored.

That's all. You don't change the operating mode to router. You don't add additional static routes (in particular no LAN-LAN routes which don't work on all routers!). The rest is default routing. There is no need to check the default LAN route in the gateway router as long as you are actually able to access the router and the internet.

All it takes is a very few simple steps. IMHO your suggestions extremely over-complicate this simple procedure which has proven in this forum and elsewhere.