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Posts: 3
Registered: ‎11-28-2017

Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units

Hi folks,

 

I Velop system (pack of 2) for my Cat 5e-wired, 2,000 sq ft. two-story townhouse after researching and geting raving reviews about the Velop but reading that bandwidth dropped considerably across floors.

FIOS is my ISP, and the fiber terminates in an ONT upstairs. I connected my Velop Parent node upstairs initially directly via Ethernet to the ONT, but after issues with the 1.1.2.184933 firmware update -which caused the parent node to act as a switch and expose one of my devices directly to the Internet by issuing a public IP to it.... a big gaping security hole-, I decided to use the FIOS Quantum router as the front-end router to the Internet, protecting the edge, just in case.

 

Unfortunately, I have not been able to get the parent and child nodes to establish a successful, steady connection via ethernet backhaul and I'm wondering if what I'm doing will ever work.

I have 3 main aeas of my house where my devices are:

 

1. a closet area where fiber terminates and the ONT, modem router, 1st Velop unit and managed PoE switch are, 

2. My home office (upstairs) where I have another unmanaged switch.

3. A downstairs family room where my receiver, streaming device, smart blue-ray player and TV set are.

 

My idea was to blanket the house with wireless without areas of weak signal, so my wireless devices could easily connect and seamlessly roam.

 

My setup is like this: ONT --> Quantum FIOS router --> Velop Parent Node (in routing, not NAT nor bridge mode) --> managed switch (upstairs).

 

From this managed switch, I have Cat 5e cable going to every room and major area of the house including my home office and family room.

 

In my family room and office I have a small unmanaged switch connecting other wired devices.

 

I'm not worried about my home office upstairs, the upstairs parent Velop unit provides enough signal strength to cover the entire floor.

 

Downstairs, however, by the family room, where I connected the 2nd Velop unit, I can never get the child node to have a stable connection.....the unit's light moves from solid light blue to blinking darker blue, to even red sometimes, and all my downstairs wireless IoT devices constantly disconnect if I use the Ethernet backhaul.

 

I tried the following downstairs:

 

1. Connecting the Cat-5 cable coming from the upstairs managed switch to the unmanaged switch and connect the Velop to it: The velop here obtains a light blue light, but it doesn't stay connected for more than a minute, then starts flashing dark blue, then goes solid light blue again...only to go blinking dark blue again over and over...all my devices downstairs lose conectivity constantly.

 

2. Connecting the Velop child unit directly to the upstairs, managed 8-port Netgear PoE switch (enabling VLANs 1 and 3, to allow the guest network to work properly): This connection tends to work well and it is stable -I didn't test this too long because I'd need to connect additional wired devices here-. As soon as I connect the 2nd Ethernet port of the Velop child unit to the unmanaged switch, the downstairs Velop starts acting up, giving me lots of red lights and never quite giving me a solid light blue light. Rebooting the unit with both cables connected makes it worse (I never get a blue light and instead it stays red, so the child unit does not act well as a switch)

 

 

3. I tried connecting the downstairs Velop unit wirelessly (without any cables), and use the wired cable coming from upstairs to connect to the unmanaged switch and connect my wired devices to it. The Velop unit here works like a champ, getting a solid light blue, but negates the reason I spent the extra money and bought the Velop in the first place: a system that supposedly supported a much faster, wired ethernet back-haul connection.

 

Is going through two switches too much and not supported?

Does the Velop child unit not work well as a switch with its 2nd ethernet port if the unit is leveraging the other port as an Ethernet backhaul connection?

 

I could throw another Cat5 cable to the same area so one goes to the unmanaged switch, and one goes to the Velop child unit, but I'm not sure I'd get better results.

 

Do you guys have any experience to share on connecting 2 Velop units via 2 switches (one managed, one unmanaged). Should I get either 2 unmanaged switches or two managed switches?

 

Thanks.

Posts: 21
Registered: ‎08-02-2007

Re: Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units

I have exact setup as yours (including FIOS quantum router). I spent hours both on call with support and manually changing stuff. My observations are random inability to get IP address and random WiFi devices failed to connect to Internet. 

Every single support call was targeted around what could have I done wrong, including complete rebuilt of entire system which took an hour and issue still persisted after that. Not a single time support personnel asked for any sort of logs (which are available directly on Velop systems via hidden URLs).

This product is complete garbage. I'm in process on looking for good deal on either Google WiFi or Tplink Deco.

I have been advised that it's better to put Velop in front of router but the reason I use Quantum gateway is very flexibile time based interent control of devices. So I started researched how good Velop will be in parental control and found an ongoing thread that even that part Velop managed to screw up. 

What a truly garbage this product is with big name associated with it. 

Expert
Posts: 242
Registered: ‎08-10-2017

Re: Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units


GeekWolf wrote:

Hi folks,

 

I Velop system (pack of 2) for my Cat 5e-wired, 2,000 sq ft. two-story townhouse after researching and geting raving reviews about the Velop but reading that bandwidth dropped considerably across floors.

FIOS is my ISP, and the fiber terminates in an ONT upstairs. I connected my Velop Parent node upstairs initially directly via Ethernet to the ONT, but after issues with the 1.1.2.184933 firmware update -which caused the parent node to act as a switch and expose one of my devices directly to the Internet by issuing a public IP to it.... a big gaping security hole-, I decided to use the FIOS Quantum router as the front-end router to the Internet, protecting the edge, just in case.

 

Unfortunately, I have not been able to get the parent and child nodes to establish a successful, steady connection via ethernet backhaul and I'm wondering if what I'm doing will ever work.

I have 3 main aeas of my house where my devices are:

 

1. a closet area where fiber terminates and the ONT, modem router, 1st Velop unit and managed PoE switch are, 

2. My home office (upstairs) where I have another unmanaged switch.

3. A downstairs family room where my receiver, streaming device, smart blue-ray player and TV set are.

 

My idea was to blanket the house with wireless without areas of weak signal, so my wireless devices could easily connect and seamlessly roam.

 

My setup is like this: ONT --> Quantum FIOS router --> Velop Parent Node (in routing, not NAT nor bridge mode) --> managed switch (upstairs).

 

From this managed switch, I have Cat 5e cable going to every room and major area of the house including my home office and family room.

 

In my family room and office I have a small unmanaged switch connecting other wired devices.

 

I'm not worried about my home office upstairs, the upstairs parent Velop unit provides enough signal strength to cover the entire floor.

 

Downstairs, however, by the family room, where I connected the 2nd Velop unit, I can never get the child node to have a stable connection.....the unit's light moves from solid light blue to blinking darker blue, to even red sometimes, and all my downstairs wireless IoT devices constantly disconnect if I use the Ethernet backhaul.

 

I tried the following downstairs:

 

1. Connecting the Cat-5 cable coming from the upstairs managed switch to the unmanaged switch and connect the Velop to it: The velop here obtains a light blue light, but it doesn't stay connected for more than a minute, then starts flashing dark blue, then goes solid light blue again...only to go blinking dark blue again over and over...all my devices downstairs lose conectivity constantly.

 

2. Connecting the Velop child unit directly to the upstairs, managed 8-port Netgear PoE switch (enabling VLANs 1 and 3, to allow the guest network to work properly): This connection tends to work well and it is stable -I didn't test this too long because I'd need to connect additional wired devices here-. As soon as I connect the 2nd Ethernet port of the Velop child unit to the unmanaged switch, the downstairs Velop starts acting up, giving me lots of red lights and never quite giving me a solid light blue light. Rebooting the unit with both cables connected makes it worse (I never get a blue light and instead it stays red, so the child unit does not act well as a switch)

 

 

3. I tried connecting the downstairs Velop unit wirelessly (without any cables), and use the wired cable coming from upstairs to connect to the unmanaged switch and connect my wired devices to it. The Velop unit here works like a champ, getting a solid light blue, but negates the reason I spent the extra money and bought the Velop in the first place: a system that supposedly supported a much faster, wired ethernet back-haul connection.

 

Is going through two switches too much and not supported?

Does the Velop child unit not work well as a switch with its 2nd ethernet port if the unit is leveraging the other port as an Ethernet backhaul connection?

 

I could throw another Cat5 cable to the same area so one goes to the unmanaged switch, and one goes to the Velop child unit, but I'm not sure I'd get better results.

 

Do you guys have any experience to share on connecting 2 Velop units via 2 switches (one managed, one unmanaged). Should I get either 2 unmanaged switches or two managed switches?

 

Thanks.


Hi--

 

   Have you tried connecting the Velop directly to the ONT and have the Velop act at the router? Have the Quantum router configured as a bridge?

 

Z

Posts: 3
Registered: ‎11-28-2017

Re: Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units

Thanks for your response ChanKaiShi. I understand your frustration (if it's the same as mine, it's probably pretty high), but I'm trying to make the Velop units work....most other mesh solutions I've researched have their own problems too, and I'd hate to change products only to experience other uglier issues.

i.e.: Google WiFi does not support connecting via VPNs, and users complain that trying to connect more than 1 machine via VPN will cause problems: see https://twitter.com/madebygoogle/status/839210724534669312, they don't have MU-MIMO support, cannot configure the internal IP subnet, and have no Web Interface for management. Customers complain a lot about degraded performance. TpLink Decos don't allow you to change your internal private IP subnet, and don't have a Web Interface for management. The Orbi's don't support an ethernet backhaul, and the Eeros don't support IPv6...they had a lot of problems connecting to Apple products, according to reviews I read. The Velop are have the best ratings for strongest signal and performance...though, granted, the latest firmware update had me wanting to return them too for a while...and I'm not happy about not having the Ethernet backhaul working as it should.

 

If you haven't returned your product yet and want to try some things I tried to make your setup work, I'll be glad to share some ides and things I've done: i.e.: configuring the Quantum Router to route back internal subnet addresses to the Velop and configuring the velop in routing mode instead of NAT. (I also had some weirdness devices not getting IP addresses now and I think I finally know why)

Posts: 3
Registered: ‎11-28-2017

Re: Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units

Thanks, for your suggestion, Zoro1

 

My problems with the Velop, though, were never with the parent unit -until the recent 1.1.2.184933 firmware update-, but rather with the child unit, when connecting to the parent via ethernet backhaul, but having 2 switches in between them, or placing the child unit in between the 2 switches. The child unit has no problems when connecting it wirelessly.

 

I'm wondering if anybody has experience making either configuration work.

 

Worst case, what I could do is throw an extra Cat 5 cable from the upstairs switch to the downstairs family area, so the child unit would go through only 1 switch, but I shouldn't have to be doing this. I should be able to either connect the child unit to the 2nd switch, or connect the child unit to the cable coming from the managed switch, and use the 2nd ethernet connection to link it to the managed switch.

 

Until 2 weeks ago my setup looked like this:

 

FIOS ONT <-> Velop parent <-> Managed switch

and from this switch, I would connect:

<-> The Quantum Router <-> coax Set Top Boxes that require MoCA and can't use ethernet. (the Quantum router didn't need to be in bridge mode and I had disabled wireless in it)
<-> The next hop unmanaged switches in my home office and family room.
<-> Any wired devices in each room of the house (occasionally a laptop when backing it up)

 

Unfortunately, the automatic 1.1.2.184933 firmware update was a dissastrous: it put the parent unit in bridge mode -all of the sudden acting as a switch-, and offering the only public IP I get from my ISP to any random internal device connecting to it wirelessly or through the managed switch.....and leaving everything else disconnected or obtaining a useless APIPA address...very ugly bugs in this firmware release. To prevent issues like this one again, I front-ended my setup wit the Quantum FIOS, something I don't like, but at least, my network won't be exposed to the Internet gain.

 

So now my setup looks like this:

 

Internet <-> (Quantum Router or another future firewall device) <-> Velop (parent node) <-> Upstairs managed switch
<-> Other rooms in the house
<-> unmanaged switch in my home office <-> other wired devices>
<-> family room unmanaged switch <-> downstairs wired devices

 

The Velop (child node) is configured wirelessly, but it should work well using the wired back-haul.

I configured the Velop to route traffic instead of using NAT -to avoid double NAT-, and configured the Quantum Router to route back internal subnet addresses (and the guest wireless network subnet, 192.168.3/24) to the Velop. That part works well.

Expert
Posts: 242
Registered: ‎08-10-2017

Re: Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units


GeekWolf wrote:

Thanks, for your suggestion, Zoro1

 

My problems with the Velop, though, were never with the parent unit -until the recent 1.1.2.184933 firmware update-, but rather with the child unit, when connecting to the parent via ethernet backhaul, but having 2 switches in between them, or placing the child unit in between the 2 switches. The child unit has no problems when connecting it wirelessly.

 

I'm wondering if anybody has experience making either configuration work.

 

Worst case, what I could do is throw an extra Cat 5 cable from the upstairs switch to the downstairs family area, so the child unit would go through only 1 switch, but I shouldn't have to be doing this. I should be able to either connect the child unit to the 2nd switch, or connect the child unit to the cable coming from the managed switch, and use the 2nd ethernet connection to link it to the managed switch.

 

Until 2 weeks ago my setup looked like this:

 

FIOS ONT <-> Velop parent <-> Managed switch

and from this switch, I would connect:

<-> The Quantum Router <-> coax Set Top Boxes that require MoCA and can't use ethernet. (the Quantum router didn't need to be in bridge mode and I had disabled wireless in it)
<-> The next hop unmanaged switches in my home office and family room.
<-> Any wired devices in each room of the house (occasionally a laptop when backing it up)

 

Unfortunately, the automatic 1.1.2.184933 firmware update was a dissastrous: it put the parent unit in bridge mode -all of the sudden acting as a switch-, and offering the only public IP I get from my ISP to any random internal device connecting to it wirelessly or through the managed switch.....and leaving everything else disconnected or obtaining a useless APIPA address...very ugly bugs in this firmware release. To prevent issues like this one again, I front-ended my setup wit the Quantum FIOS, something I don't like, but at least, my network won't be exposed to the Internet gain.

 

So now my setup looks like this:

 

Internet <-> (Quantum Router or another future firewall device) <-> Velop (parent node) <-> Upstairs managed switch
<-> Other rooms in the house
<-> unmanaged switch in my home office <-> other wired devices>
<-> family room unmanaged switch <-> downstairs wired devices

 

The Velop (child node) is configured wirelessly, but it should work well using the wired back-haul.

I configured the Velop to route traffic instead of using NAT -to avoid double NAT-, and configured the Quantum Router to route back internal subnet addresses (and the guest wireless network subnet, 192.168.3/24) to the Velop. That part works well.


Hi --

  

So your setup looks like this:

 

Internet <-> (Quantum Router or another future firewall device) <-> Velop (parent node) <-> Upstairs managed switch
<-> Other rooms in the house
<-> unmanaged switch in my home office <-> other wired devices>
<-> family room unmanaged switch <-> downstairs wired devices

 

Previouslyt using backhaul I tried the same configuration as you are now using with the same marginal results. What worked MUCH better for me is the following:

 

 Internet -> Velop Parent Node -> 32 port Switch (managed) -> EA9500 Router (in bridge mode) -> Velop Slaves (6)

 

With my original configuration, usign the EA9500 as a router I had continual Velop node drops, now the 6 slave units drop very infrequently and are back up in a few seconds by power recyclign the node.

 

Z

 

 



 

Posts: 21
Registered: ‎08-02-2007

Re: Constant disconnects when using Ethernet back-haul and 2 switches between the units

I tried all sort of troubleshooting but issue with clients either unable to get IP address or clients loosing internet connection persists regardless what. I don't want to change how my system works, all I was stable AP and so far it was impossible to achieve for a lot of folks with ethernet backhaul. What do you mean "Google WiFi does not support VPN"?